Discussion:
Perpetual motion and Quantum physics.
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4***@gmail.com
2018-06-30 12:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Perpetual motion and Quantum physics.
===
To be true the concept of ''Perpetual motion'' must obey some physical law.
The Classic / Newtonian physics forbids such phenomena.
But what does Quantum physics say?
The Quantum physics says:
[ In 2017 new states of matter, time crystals, were discovered in which
on a microscopic scale the component atoms are in continual repetitive motion,
thus satisfying the literal definition of "perpetual motion".
However, these do not constitute perpetual motion machines in the traditional sense
or violate thermodynamic laws because they are in their quantum ground state,
so no energy can be extracted from them; they have "motion without energy".]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

It means that on a microscopic scale ( in their quantum ground state)
the Quantum physics can allow "perpetual motion" as a
"motion without energy" . . . but . . .
. . . but then the ''zero-point energy'' comes.
[ Vacuum energy and zero-point energy:
In order to explain effects such as virtual particles and the Casimir effect,
many formulations of quantum physics include a background energy which
pervades empty space, known as vacuum or zero-point energy.
The ability to harness zero-point energy for useful work
is considered pseudoscience by the scientific community at large.
Inventors have proposed various methods for extracting useful work
from zero-point energy, but none have been found to be viable,
no claims for extraction of zero-point energy have ever been validated by
the scientific community, and there is no evidence that zero-point energy
can be used in violation of conservation of energy.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
# . . .
If the ''Perpetual motion'' is true concept then the virtual particles
must be tied with real particles (Casimir effect ) by
''The Law of conservation and transformation energy/ mass''
#
''Perpetual motion'' concept is tied with
''The Law of conservation and transformation energy/ mass''
===============
m***@gmail.com
2019-06-26 23:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4***@gmail.com
Perpetual motion and Quantum physics.
===
To be true the concept of ''Perpetual motion'' must obey some physical law.
The Classic / Newtonian physics forbids such phenomena.
But what does Quantum physics say?
[ In 2017 new states of matter, time crystals, were discovered in which
on a microscopic scale the component atoms are in continual repetitive motion,
thus satisfying the literal definition of "perpetual motion".
However, these do not constitute perpetual motion machines in the traditional sense
or violate thermodynamic laws because they are in their quantum ground state,
so no energy can be extracted from them; they have "motion without energy".]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
It means that on a microscopic scale ( in their quantum ground state)
the Quantum physics can allow "perpetual motion" as a
"motion without energy" . . . but . . .
. . . but then the ''zero-point energy'' comes.
In order to explain effects such as virtual particles and the Casimir effect,
many formulations of quantum physics include a background energy which
pervades empty space, known as vacuum or zero-point energy.
The ability to harness zero-point energy for useful work
is considered pseudoscience by the scientific community at large.
Inventors have proposed various methods for extracting useful work
from zero-point energy, but none have been found to be viable,
no claims for extraction of zero-point energy have ever been validated by
the scientific community, and there is no evidence that zero-point energy
can be used in violation of conservation of energy.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
# . . .
If the ''Perpetual motion'' is true concept then the virtual particles
must be tied with real particles (Casimir effect ) by
''The Law of conservation and transformation energy/ mass''
#
''Perpetual motion'' concept is tied with
''The Law of conservation and transformation energy/ mass''
===============
motion can be vibration
in that kind of motion
it can be endless and with no gain or loss of energy !!!

ATB
Y.Porat
================
p***@gmail.com
2019-07-15 23:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@gmail.com
Post by 4***@gmail.com
Perpetual motion and Quantum physics.
===
To be true the concept of ''Perpetual motion'' must obey some physical law.
The Classic / Newtonian physics forbids such phenomena.
But what does Quantum physics say?
[ In 2017 new states of matter, time crystals, were discovered in which
on a microscopic scale the component atoms are in continual repetitive motion,
thus satisfying the literal definition of "perpetual motion".
However, these do not constitute perpetual motion machines in the traditional sense
or violate thermodynamic laws because they are in their quantum ground state,
so no energy can be extracted from them; they have "motion without energy".]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
It means that on a microscopic scale ( in their quantum ground state)
the Quantum physics can allow "perpetual motion" as a
"motion without energy" . . . but . . .
. . . but then the ''zero-point energy'' comes.
In order to explain effects such as virtual particles and the Casimir effect,
many formulations of quantum physics include a background energy which
pervades empty space, known as vacuum or zero-point energy.
The ability to harness zero-point energy for useful work
is considered pseudoscience by the scientific community at large.
Inventors have proposed various methods for extracting useful work
from zero-point energy, but none have been found to be viable,
no claims for extraction of zero-point energy have ever been validated by
the scientific community, and there is no evidence that zero-point energy
can be used in violation of conservation of energy.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
# . . .
If the ''Perpetual motion'' is true concept then the virtual particles
must be tied with real particles (Casimir effect ) by
''The Law of conservation and transformation energy/ mass''
#
''Perpetual motion'' concept is tied with
''The Law of conservation and transformation energy/ mass''
===============
motion can be vibration
in that kind of motion
it can be endless and with no gain or loss of energy !!!
ATB
Y.Porat
================
look for the
Y circlon mechanism !
=====
http://sites.google.com/site/theyporatmodel/an-abstract
at its appendix
=======================
TIA
Y.P
=================
David Lowrance
2019-07-19 08:29:33 UTC
Permalink
Y.P

I was impressed with your mental models of the atom and the way you are calculating the binding forces from the nuclear level outwards also, to the tensil strengths of the crystaline forms. Seems like a lot of intuition also as to the atoms fields of force.

It's not just about electrons! Nice work and very deep thought progression.
I was wondering where you came up with "vibration" as that is something I have been working with for mmany years now?

I was glad to see you chose Bsmuth for one of the your examples, I use that a lot in my vibration coils.

<http://www.resonantfractals.org/Scalar_Coil/Fundamentals_Scalar_Coils.html>

Thanks,
Dave L
David Lowrance
2019-07-19 08:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Perpetual motion,

Motion that never stops. And that is what we see at every level of the universe. Nothing ever stops and nothing ever comes to rest. We take a free ride around the sun every year, and free ride around the earth every day. Each atom spins and no matter how we abuse it, short of a nuclear explosion, it will recover itself to the same frequency and dimension as every other atom of the same construction.

Any person working with nuclear mass resonance or spectral identificaiton of elements, knows this.

Where does this perpetual energy of motion come from? The question that sparks the imagination, and creates endless conflicts of theories and ideas.

We can raise an Isotope field from a copper pipe, and it will self sustain in the air [ space ] around that pipe until we apply a take down vibration to it. This is a perpetual motion field of conical form with wide ends and compressed ends, and the field can be flipped over to reverse the ends.

This field is calculated off the isotope resonance of the element, without using a magnetic field at all.

Here is the experiment to raise a field on a copper pipe, and feel it for yourself.

Experiment Description:

A copper pipe or tube, length from 6 inch to about 1 foot can be used to demonstrate this effect.
The power of this field will depend on the mass of the copper pipe.
A coherent Isotope field will be raised up from the copper pipe, and can be felt around it.
Two stainless steel calipers are used to inject the field on the pipe, and then to flip the field over.
The calipers must be accurate to .01 mm.
Once injected the field will self sustain, and must be taken down using a different caliper setting of 1/9x.
This experiment can also be done using a special type of coil system at very low power levels.

Here is the experiment:

Experimental Proof of Isotope Resonance

In order to show the calculations are sound, I am sharing a post from the V2EM site.
SSF = Self Sustaining Field, these fields can be palmed using a finger or hand around the active metal tubes or pipes.

-------------------------------------------------------

Setting up a conical field on copper pipes and tubes.

Caliper => 92.71 mm

Hold the pipe or tube with it's center of mass in the caliper gap at 90 deg, SSF comes up with wide ends of the field on the ends of the pipe [ Dual Cones ].

Caliper 2 => 92.71 mm

Touch both calipers to both ends of the pipe simultaneously, field flips [ Football Shape ]. Wide field at center of tube two compression nodes on each end.

Caliper => 10.30 mm

Touch on the compression nodes on the tube to take the field down.

Clear out residuals using a magnet, if there are any present.

This is but one fractal dimension that is possible, taken directly from the spreadsheets below.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Electric Field injection Electron shell vibration

Caliper => 49.43 mm

Touch the pipe anywhere. The field will be uniform everywhere on the copper medium, and feel electric.

Caliper => 5.49 mm

Touch the tube anywhere, the field should come down

Clear any residuals with a magnet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you can feel that when it goes up, and then again as it comes down, can you explain where the energy is comming from, to sustain it?

Dave L
Tom Roberts
2019-07-20 04:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Lowrance
Perpetual motion,
Not really.
Post by David Lowrance
Motion that never stops. And that is what we see at every level of
the universe. Nothing ever stops and nothing ever comes to rest.
To a casual observer, perhaps, but not to someone interested in the
details and capable of looking accurately enough.

First, "stops" is the wrong criterion. Being in a stationary state
captures the notion of "perpetual motion" MUCH better. But no planet is
in a stationary state, they all lose or gain minuscule amounts of
kinetic energy. All planets will ultimately fall into the sun, if the
solar system were to last long enough -- but it won't, because our best
models of stellar evolution indicate the sun will run out of fuel long
before the planets fall in.
Post by David Lowrance
We
take a free ride around the sun every year, and free ride around the
earth every day.
Yes. But neither of these is truly a stationary state: earth's rotation
rate is slowing down [#], as is earth's orbital period [@]. But these
are such small effects that one must look very carefully.

[#] Hence the need for leap seconds roughly every 18
months.

[@] Gravitational radiation would make earth's orbital
radius decrease year-to-year, but other effects are
larger and the orbit is actually getting larger by
about 15cm per year. This is reasonably well modeled
as mass lost by the sun, but errorbars are large.
Post by David Lowrance
Each atom spins and no matter how we abuse it, short
of a nuclear explosion, it will recover itself to the same frequency
and dimension as every other atom of the same construction.
Yes. But that is because the electrons in the (stable) atom are not
"moving", they are in stationary quantum states.
Post by David Lowrance
Any person working with nuclear mass resonance or spectral
identificaiton of elements, knows this.
Well, yes. But this is due to stationary quantum states, not "perpetual
motion".
Post by David Lowrance
Where does this perpetual energy of motion come from?
Nowhere, because there is no "perpetual motion". There are stationary
quantum states, and non-stationary macroscopic states, neither of which
involves "perpetual motion".
Post by David Lowrance
[... nonsense and wild, unreasonable speculations ignored]
Tom Roberts
David Lowrance
2019-07-20 20:47:42 UTC
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